Aditya: Ok Aama, I’m going to start now. The first category of questions is on how Kalanki used to look. What do you remember? How old were you when you first came to Kalanki?

Amrita: I came to Kalanki 28 years ago. I lived in Kathmandu before then, but I came to Kalanki 28 years ago. At that time, there were not a lot of houses built around Kalanki. Ring Road was already built, and on the side of Ring Road, there were trees, like the peepal trees. There were many trees on both sides of the road. On the left and right sides of the trees, there were paddy fields. The land was very fertile and most of it was covered with rice. Before it matured, the field would look very green, and as soon as the rice was ready for harvest, the whole field would look golden. Next to Kalanki, there was a river called the Balkhu Khola. In the river, very clean water would flow. There, we would wash our clothes, shower, and everything else. It was really clean, and people would go there a lot. Around the colder seasons, there would be slight frosting in the morning, so when we were walking, we would slip and fall back then. That’s the way it was. Around that time, I would stay home a decent amount and study. I would raise the kids, do work around the house, prepare meals, feed the kids, send them to school, wash their clothes, and take care of them.

Aditya: Were the houses always tall, or were they smaller back then?

Amrita: You wouldn’t see houses that big. The houses were kind of small. In some places, the houses were scattered, so there weren’t many of them. The roads were not as wide. There were roads that were made just for people to walk on because they were pretty narrow.

Aditya: So those roads weren’t made for cars?

Amrita: Cars wouldn’t use those roads. There was no bridge above this river, either. We would have to cross the river. We would carry things in our bags, take our shoes off, and cross the river on foot with our hands full. There was no bridge back then. It was only afterward that they began constructing more around the river. 

Aditya: When did they start putting water tanks above the houses?

Amrita: Back then, there wasn’t a central plumbing system, so we would have to walk very far and bring back water in gagris (water-carrying pots) beforehand. There was no practice of having water tanks above our houses yet. Most houses were not strong enough to hold the tanks back then. The foundations back then were not as sturdy. We would store water in containers when we needed drinking water or were going to wash our clothes. Otherwise, we’d wash our clothes at the river. Eventually, they started to dig wells, so after they started doing this, the families with sturdy houses started putting water tanks above their houses. For eight to ten years after the wells were dug, we would continue to extract water by bucket rather than storing water in the tanks. Only afterward, people started installing tanks above their houses and sinks and faucets inside their homes, which was the start of our modern plumbing infrastructure. Long after, the central plumbing system was developed, they developed the roads and installed electricity and telephone poles. First they developed the roads, then they added the home faucets, and then they added the water tanks around most people’s homes. The community began to grow and more houses were constructed. The newer the houses were, the more sturdy they were, and that’s how the practice of placing these tanks above began.

Aditya: What do you miss from those times?

Amrita: Of everything, the roads were not polluted and there wasn’t any dust in the air that would clog our noses. Our eyes wouldn’t itch and no dust would enter them. Even in Kalanki, there wasn’t a lot of pollution. Kalanki is a junction that connects Kathmandu to districts like Dhading and parts of Nepal that are so far west of Mahakali. Ring Road is the junction in Kalanki where all of these places would become connected to Kathmandu, where all of the cars would come. Nonetheless, it was not very dirty. The water was clean and would fall regularly. Everything used to be clean, but it isn’t like that anymore. You see a lot of dirt and plastic lying around.

Aditya: So this year isn’t the first year that you have had to wear a face mask?

Amrita: It’s probably been around 5 years since I started wearing masks. The rampant pollution started 7-8 years ago, but it had been gradually increasing before then. Before 5 years ago, there wasn’t much of a practice to wear masks.

Aditya: In your opinion, what was the biggest factor causing pollution? Was it the construction of homes, the removal of trees, the movement of traffic, etc.?

Amrita: There’s a lot at play here. The first factor is the increased movement of cars since they expel a lot of fumes. The second reason is that the roads are not made well here. Construction on broken roads often does not happen in a timely manner. During construction, they break up the road and leave the pieces lying around for a long time, which produces a lot of dust. On top of that, new cars are constantly entering the narrow roads, creating a lot of smoke and exhaust fumes. People now consume more and more industrially packaged goods and grains, so the plastic wrapping on these goods becomes polluted material since there isn’t much of an effort to decrease it. The waste management services arrive every 4-7 days to pick up the waste, but not everyone does their best to contain it before then. All of these factors are mixing. It’s not just one thing causing the pollution. Ultimately, it’s due to human activity, and it’s becoming a growing problem.

Aditya: Are there any animals that you used to see before that you don’t see anymore?

Amrita: Yes. When the houses were less congested and there was more open space, I would see wild chickens roaming the paddy fields during rice-growing season. Jackals would also walk around and yell, and occasionally steal chickens from anyone who owned chickens. They would say that there were some leopards that would walk around too. I never saw them, but they said that leopards would walk around the Tribhuvan University campus. When we went around Dakshin Kali, a heavily forested area south of Kathmandu, we would see these species from time to time, but we don’t see them anymore.

Aditya: What did they do to the Balkhu River? From what I heard, they constructed walls on the side of the river. 

Amrita: First, its flow was not interfered with. It had its own path and it would flow on it. However, the land planning groups would buy all of the land around the river and break it up into sections to be sold and developed. They changed the natural, curvy flow of the river with walls on both sides and made it straight in order to profit off of the extra land left over. Over time, people bought the land and the community along the river grew, so they started to throw their trash in the river and mix the river with the area’s sewage. So, the river became polluted with people throwing plastic packets and dead animals in there. In the upcoming plan for the river, they hope to stop people from throwing their trash in the river, little by little, but it’s unknown when that will be implemented by. Even today, in the portions of the river where there are no walls on either side, they are constructing and installing them. In these newly constructed parts, they are keeping the 20 feet of land on either side of the river empty so that it looks less congested, and in some places further away along the river, they are growing trees. Here, there isn’t much land left to be used for trees, so that area will most likely become roads.

Aditya: When that river floods, where does the water go? Does it go towards houses?

Amrita: That water doesn’t go towards the houses. It goes towards the Bishnumati River and mixes there. Eventually, the Bishnumati and Bagmati river intersect.

Aditya: But what happens when it rains a lot? Doesn’t it flood?

Amrita: The people started to build a community along the river, but the river was accumulating runoff from all over the watershed. When the sewage was mixing with the river, it wasn’t only the sewage; the runoff from the landscape and the water that accumulated on roofs and balconies also mixed with it. Thus, the river’s water levels would rise greatly. We don’t get to decide where the water goes or to tell it where the residents live and where they don’t live; it moves on its own based on its levels. People like to build their houses on easy, flat areas, so the water would reach these areas when it rained and it entered the homes. Last year, about 50-60 houses downhill from us ended up being affected by flooding, with whole first floors being damaged, and the same thing happened to 120-130 houses on the other side of our house. All of their stuff on the first floor was destroyed as well.

Ram Mani: Aditya, how are you?

Aditya: I’m good, how are you?

Ram Mani: I’m doing well.

Aditya: So, in order to profit off of the land, one of the things that the land planners did was make the Balkhu River narrower. What else did they do?

Amrita: That was mainly it. The first thing they did was make the river more narrow, and the second thing was that they made it straight. They situated people in lower-altitude areas along the hill and ripped off the landowners.

Aditya: Did land planners also remove trees from the sides of the roads to profit off of the land?

Amrita: They had planted peepal trees. I’m not sure if it was because the trees themselves did not live long lives, maybe 20-30 years-

Ram Mani: I’m going to add a little bit about the profitability. In the beginning, the river was narrow. By making the river straight, they were able to own about 50 percent of the original land where the river was. Its flow was initially zig-zagged, but straightening it out increased the amount of land available for sale by about 50 percent. To begin with, the river was wide, so when it was wintertime or rainy season, there was more space for it to flow. Now, the river is narrower and deeper, and there are walls on both sides. Now, when it floods, there is not much area for the water to go to, so about 100 houses had their first floors destroyed in the past year. Since the river’s natural flow was restricted, it is now disastrous when it floods. Whoever profited off the land just sold it and left. He doesn’t live there, so he just took the money, bundled it all up, and left. They experience no consequences, but the people that bought the homes have to face the disasters every ten to fifteen years when a big flood occurs. In fact, there was a big flood last year. The issue is, there isn’t adequate protection of public lands. The group that straightened the river and gained the extra land gave some to the government for the construction of a land tax and registration office and a land measurement office. They offered a few pieces of the land to the government and the new office handled land registration, so the government did indeed take the offered land, but in doing so they validated the rest of the land for sale. This is how the planner took advantage of public lands for profit. I just wanted to add that.

Aditya: Thank you. My other question is, you mentioned Tribhuvan University. Are there a lot of trees at the university? I mean to ask, they haven’t removed many of the trees from the university, right?

Amrita: There were never that many trees at the university. There are a few pine trees that they have left there. Towards the botanical garden, there are trees there and there are some pine trees. Downhill from the Bagbhairab temple, there’s a little bit of forested area, so there are a ton of trees there. 

Aditya: Would you go on a walk after waking up in the morning?

Amrita: Yes.

Aditya: Since then and now, has your usual walking route changed?

Amrita: The roads used to be narrow back then and there were open fields to walk on. It was green all around us. Now, there are houses everywhere you look. The roads are now mostly used by cars, and that’s the essence of the change that’s happened. Back then, I’d be able to listen to the birds sing and hear other natural noises. Now, we just hear people and the sound of pollution. 

Aditya: When I visited Nepal five years ago, I saw a cow roaming freely on the road. Were there more cows roaming the streets back when you first moved to Kalanki?

Amrita: Here’s how we do it in Kathmandu. We raise the cows, and since there was more open space back then, we would let it graze freely. It would go where it wants, and in the evening, it would return home. So, on one hand, they usually walk around the streets. On the other hand, they raise cows and sell the milk. Whenever a male cow is born, it’s pretty useless to the family, so they just let it go. It walks along the roads, eating whatever it can find. Much earlier, cows would be used to plow the fields. In Kathmandu Valley, however, this practice ended. Around the Pasupati (Shiva) temple here, the practice of plowing with cows ended because Lord Shiva’s vehicle is known to be the ox, so male calves were often left behind. Long before, the cows would stay around the temple and eat around there and graze. They would walk around the open places and walk around, for there were clean water sources and rivers nearby. These roaming cows are starting to become a bit of an issue, though. They would usually just eat vegetables that were put out to be sold on the street, and there frankly isn’t much grass around for them to graze on. So, they’ve just been eating a lot of whatever people litter on the road and stay there. That must have been why you saw one.

Aditya: From 20 years ago to now, what’s the biggest change you have noticed in the landscape?

Amrita: The biggest change is the amount of pollution. Population density increased, and black smoke floats around when we breathe. We used to be able to wipe the surfaces in the house one day and not have to wipe them again for several days, but now, surfaces are full of dust the next day. At least recently, due to the lockdown, there has been a little less pollution and dust flying around. As soon as the cars start moving more frequently again, it’s impossible to live here. You see dust no matter where you look. Trees, roads, and houses all gather dust on them. To clean the inside of the home, the water already isn’t very clean, so that doesn’t help either.

Aditya: Is there anything that can be done to decrease the amount of dust that flies around?

Amrita: One person’s efforts are insufficient. Everyone has to take part in some way. People need to drive cars that are in good condition, which is tough because the government hasn’t even created any policies to make sure that the cars on the road are in good condition, so change at the personal level isn’t to be expected.

Aditya: When you say “condition,” do you mean cars that are very old?

Amrita: Old cars continue riding on the roads, cars that are so old that they expel black smoke. They shouldn’t be on the road, and on top of that, the density of traffic is very high. They should make a policy about that, maybe allowing cars under a certain age to be on the road. The roads are narrow and there are several cars, most of which are old or give off black smoke. There’s no policy that would regulate all this, and these are the consequences.

Aditya: Could you tell me a bit about the work you do around Kalanki? For example, mom told me that you’re very involved in the community.

Amrita: In this area, about 300 houses are in a citizen’s community organization called Nagarik Samaaj. As an organization, one thing we recently did was put up lights around the neighborhood. Here, it’s not like America where the government installs the lighting, so our organization does that. There are 74 light poles, and we finished putting lights up on those poles the day before yesterday. We started this construction five or six years ago because theft occurs sometimes on the street, it can be hard to see where you’re stepping, and there may be ice or cracks whether it’s day or night. During thefts, it’s hard to see who did it until they get further away, so these lights are pretty important. Another thing this organization does is facilitates meet-ups and get-togethers among one another. For that reason, we meet for time to time, as well as during occasions like Teej, New Year’s Day, and Dashain. I’m currently the president of the organization after being a member a while ago. They gave me the presidency, so this is what I’m working on. Around the time of Dashain, there is trash on the sides of the roads. It doesn’t look good, so we organize people to clean the sides of the streets. The organization would invite community members, other groups such as Clean Nepal, and public officers to have a community clean-up. Due to COVID this year, however, it is hard to get people out of their homes, so we have hired someone to clean the roads themselves. That’s the type of work we do. I’m also president of a women’s group that collects money. Each of us fundraises about Rs. 300 every month and accumulate it in the bank. There’s a form with which people can apply for loans with that money. They present a photocopy of their passport and submit the necessary documents. We then take the money out of the bank for them and give it to them with interest. All of our members have to fundraise money like that and raise interest like that. As a group, we also get together and socialize. It’s all about what we can do for women. 

Aditya: In the last 20 years, what’s the project that you have liked the most or have done the best in? Or two different projects?

Amrita: I’m not sure if I would call them projects, but I truly enjoy serving these organizations so there’s a lot that I’ve done for them. These get-togethers that we have are very valuable, like the Teej celebration. In our Nepali culture, we usually invite our female friends over and prepare a feast together. The organization does a good job of fundraising so that it can organize its own large feast so that the women don’t have to worry about cooking for everyone and can simply pay for food and festivities, like dancing. They can stay there, eat, and dance all day long. From that, we developed a certain culture of growing the size of the celebration from a mere houseful of guests to a whole hall of families. For example, I could pay a mere Rs. 250 to attend the celebration with my group of six or seven others, and we’d all be able to eat and dance, making the celebration affordable to everyone. We serve simple meals, not chicken and fish, because the priority is the social aspect between everyone rather than what we are eating.

Aditya. That’s really good. That’s all I have for questions, but if there’s anything you’d like to share, then please do.

Amrita: There’s not much else, that’s mostly it. Most importantly, because of the way that people don’t take care of their surroundings, it’s slowly being damaged. From my personal experience, I manage the waste in my area. I only take the things that don’t decompose or can’t be recycled and I put them in the trash. Everything else, I compost. That includes cotton, tree leaves, grass, vegetables, wool clothing, and paper. To eat all of that up, I’ve been raising an earthworm colony. It eats everything there. It eats clothing, paper, egg cartons, teabags, and everything else, so I don’t have to send much out to the waste services. When it comes to plastic milk containers and similar items, the earthworms can’t eat them, so I recycle them through a recycling company that pays me for the materials I give it. In the women’s group that I lead, we put together all of this money from the recycling service for miscellaneous tasks, to feed people, and similar purposes. Things like glass, for example, cannot be recycled, so from time to time we take those and plastic items and send them to the recycling service. Everything else, I deal with on my own. Out of my own beliefs, I don’t burn plastic because I want to save the environment. It would be nice if everyone did that as well. I’ve also been planting seeds to help stop pollution on my end, but not everyone has been putting in the effort to do so. If they did, it wouldn’t take long to fix the environment. We can make it look good again, but everyone’s help is needed. On the end of the government, we need more comprehensive policies, and only if we have that, then we will get somewhere.

Aditya: As you said, nothing can get done if it’s only coming from one person. I was really happy to be able to speak to you. This has been really nice. Thank you Aama. 

Amrita: Thank you babu. Bye.